The Invasion Of The Body Scanners :-0)))

[Marc Martyn]

Body scanners are popping up in airports around the world like dandelions on a spring day. You now have a choice of going through the scan or having a physical pat down. If you refuse both, you are asked to leave the airport. Great[huh]

I personally feel they are going too far. For me, the Skies of United aren't friendly anymore. I used to really enjoy flying and looked forward to every trip. Now, I will only fly if it is an emergency and driving is out of the question.

[MikeFishes]

It's not an OR, it's an AND. You get pre-selected (at random) to go through. And it's up to the TSA folk if you get, ahem, pat down.

I've seen a couple of videos online of people going through and there's 1 thing that I don't get. These scanners are supposed to be so advanced that they can see anything you may be hiding underneath your clothing. I think you guys have all seen the images they produce. There's a reason they are called "Virtual Strip Searches". But with all this technology, I saw something that kind of threw me back when I was watching the video. A good portion of the people who went through the scanner also had to deal with a patdown. Now, explain this to me. You just saw a scan of the person, a scan that looks past the clothing they are wearing, and you have to do a patdown? Really? Something's not right with that. We're spending billions on these machines and all they do is tell some person with rubber gloves if they need to pat you down?

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm all for the enhanced security, but the only reason these scanners are in the airports is because the company who makes them got congress to put funding for it in the stimulus package. Apparently not because they are effective.

Here's a video. Pay no attention to the girl getting yelled at because she refused to go through the scanner, but watch the people going through the scanner. The first patdown is about 3:30 and they continue throughout the rest of the video.

[Mike Carey]

not to dodge the question but I believe the terrorists will find a different way off downing jetliners. Hadn't part of Bin Laden's vision was to disrupt the West's culture and economies? I think he has done that. Knocking down a few airliners again would certainly throw the world's economy back into a depresion worse than the one we are struggling out of.

Oh, body scanners vs. pat-downs. Neither bother me, guess my job has changed my perspective/attitudes. When you meet people on a daily basis and do things way more private to them than a pat down it just doesn't seem like a big deal. But that's just me.

[Bodofish]

The first mistake is not allowing law abiding citizens to carry legal fire arms on the planes. If the terrorists had no idea who was packing heat they wouldn't target airplanes. As it is we've made them an easy target. The TSA disarms everyone that steps on board. How convenient.

As for body scanners? Waste of time.

[Rich McVey]

I like to make it easy for them. When I fly... I only wear a spedo.

[racfish]

I make it even easier. I try not to fly anywhere. A good trip for me is going to the Veder River or the Penninsula.

[bionic_one]

The first mistake is not allowing law abiding citizens to carry legal fire arms on the planes. If the terrorists had no idea who was packing heat they wouldn't target airplanes. As it is we've made them an easy target. The TSA disarms everyone that steps on board. How convenient.

As for body scanners? Waste of time.

I'm a gun advocate and carrier, but I disagree. I think it's too dangerous to have a firearm on an airplane. An accidental discharge or someone losing their temper with another passenger could result in a loss of cabin pressure...

I don't think the body scanners are overkill. True, I was a bit uneasy when I went through one at BWI in January 2009 with a really tall, really non-english speaking guy telling me to go through it... BUT, if it works, it works. I just don't think it will work when you got hundreds of poorly paid employees working all over the airport, that don't have to go through them, and those people are easy to bribe.

I think the airline scare is part of a fear and oppress to control the masses thing.

[Gringo Pescador]

Scan us, pat us down, whatever, just get us through. If that is what they think they have to do, do it and get it over with.

Looking that the video MikeFishes posted up..

The 1st thing I don't like is they have you facing AWAY from your stuff. So, I put my shoes, keys, backpack full of fishing reels, laptop, etc. etc. on the belt, then go through that scanner while somebody picks up my stuff at the other end of the belt and walks away while my back is turned? Think they would shutdown the terminal for that? H*ll no. I'd be making a report and never see it again.

The 1st guy they pat down (grey hair, blue shirt), looks to me like he was holding his wallet in his hand when he was scanned, so they gave him a little extra scrutiny. I for one, think that was a good idea on his part and will be holding onto my passport and wallet when I go through, even if it means an extra little "love" from the TSA officer before going on my way.

I also think it is interesting how, about 11 minutes in, the guy witht he baggy pants and long hair goes through, they scan him, then make him stand on the pat down spot and wait for a little bit, then only pat down one leg?

I was hopeing to see what they do with kids. We are heading south of the border to visit the inlaws over New Years, so we'll see how it goes...

[wolverine]

As a guy who spent over 22 years working international business I have flown more miles and seen more airports than most pilots. Do I feel inconvenienced by all the security measures? Yes. However I also know that there are a lot of very dedicated terrorists out there whose entire lives revolve around killing westerners and destroying our way of life. As a society we are wanna be do gooders and don't want to really to believe how much true evil is out there. Or have the stomach to do what is really necessary to solve the problems. I would prefer to say what I truly think should be done but since I do have a little political correctness I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

[bionic_one]

Political correctness gets people killed.

[wolverine]

Lee,

Of course "political correctness" gets people killed. I still have a shirt from my Vietnam days that says "kill them all. Let God sort them out". Now if I had put that in my first post it would have brought out the hordes of pacifist hand wringers.

[Marc Martyn]

Terrorist:
-a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

Mike has an excellent point. Bin Laden has to be rolling on the floor of his Pakistan safe house laughing his guts out. [lol] Isn't that the country we are sending billions of dollars to in support of the "war on terror"?

When are the people in this nation, or other nations going to stand up and say, "I'm tired of being treated like a suspected terrorist". I see people interviewed in airports all the time saying, "if it keeps me safe, I don't really mind." How many of these people stop and think they have a far greater chance of being killed driving to the airport than a terrorist blowing up the plane they are going to be boarding?

Here is my proposal of how to approach the airport security. The government does millions of background checks monthly on people who are applying and being hired for federal, state, county and city jobs. Many of these positions are high security positions. I had to go through that process in the days before the computer to joint the military and be given a secret classification clearance to work on B-52's loaded with nuclear bombs sitting on the Alert Pad.

I would like to see a system put in place where citizens apply for a security clearance to fly on commercial flights. There are hundred of millions of people that would pass these background checks. Deny those with criminal records. Those that pass will be issued a i.d. badge with your personal information encoded on it with your fingerprints. Scan the persons hand and the card. Those who do not have an I.D., must go through the scanner. Those who have the I.D. card, must pass through a metal detector. All passengers coming into the U.S. must be scanned.

We as a nation lose if we cannot trust each other. If we live in fear of the "what if's", then the terrorists have won.

[wolverine]

Marc,

I doubt that we'll ever see what you suggested. A national ID card. Just the thought of one gets a percentage of the population running to the stores and buying every box of ammunition on the shelf. Their next thought is that the government is going to start implanting bar code ID chips in everyone's head.

[Marc Martyn]

LOL. That is funny, because today the NSA, FBI, CIA and Homeland Security can pull up more information on people than they know about themselves. And, if these agencies want to find a person fast and they have their cell phone turned on, they can get to them before they can drive to the sporting goods store to buy that ammo.

Besides, make it voluntary, if you want to fly without the wait and hassle, get the I.D. If you don't want the card, go through the scanner and what ever device they will be coming up with.

It won't be too much longer until you go through one of these scanners and the TSA agent will ask you, "Sir, have you had a bowl movement in the last 3 days? Our scan shows you have a great amount of substance in you lower G.I. track".

[natetreat]

LOL. That is funny, because today the NSA, FBI, CIA and Homeland Security can pull up more information on people than they know about themselves. And, if these agencies want to find a person fast and they have their cell phone turned on, they can get to them before they can drive to the sporting goods store to buy that ammo.

Besides, make it voluntary, if you want to fly without the wait and hassle, get the I.D. If you don't want the card, go through the scanner and what ever device they will be coming up with.

It won't be too much longer until you go through one of these scanners and the TSA agent will ask you, "Sir, have you had a bowl movement in the last 3 days? Our scan shows you have a great amount of substance in you lower G.I. track".

Hehehehe. That's funny. Cell phone triangulation only works if your cell has reception from at least two towers, and that really won't bother the fishermen or the terrorists that set up shop next to the meth labs out in the wilderness that we can't even find let alone stop.

As scared as people are of terrorists you're more likely to get shot walking around in belltown after dark than you are to be on a plane they decide to kill in the name of Allah.

Everytime I've flown I've gotten a full body cavity search. I don't know why, I'm not a bad person. My name came up "at random". Granted I've only flown twice. It's a difficult situation for the airlines though. People don't feel they're safe, they won't fly. People think they're being harrassed, they don't fly. It's not really hard to find the terrorists, they are on watch lists and we could profile them, but that is unconstitutional. But our airplanes are private property. If in order to buy a ticket you had to sign a waiver that says you'll be profiled based on a certain set of criteria by private security people, then that would avoid the legal issues to a certain extent.

I don't know. It's a hassle. And Bin Ladin is laughing his @$$ off at us watching people on the news complain and jump through all the hoops, meanwhile plotting his next attack marking things off his list that we don't check for. So far, the attacks have been blocked thanks to our efforts. But we still haven't found him. And even if we did, would that stop the terrorists from wanting to kill us? Nope. Probably just make them angrier. I say we clone Jack Bauer and have him run security for all of our airports. Or get high speed trains like China and stop flying altogether. It'd be nice, to have all that leg room.

[bionic_one]

Bin Laden can laugh all he wants from his third world home. I'm happy with mine. Sure, things could be better, but having been in that area of the world before, I know just how much better we have things.

I remember one time going to the rec tent after my shift, having just gotten back on a convoy from Bagram to ISAF HQ in Kabul and talking to my worthless aunt on the phone. She was complaining that the air conditioning wasn't working and it was a whole 85 degrees in the house! I hung up, went back on top of my favorite hidout building and cooled off. It was probably a good 10 minutes before she realized I wasn't on the line anymore.

Back on topic - I like Marc's idea, it's not a whole lot different than a passport.

Edit: And if 'winning' for them is giving us a little anxiety and causing us some inconvenience at the airport, they can have their win, and sit it in their piss-poor dust bowl of a region and revel in their victory. Me, I'll have another glass of sweet tea vodka and enjoy a movie on my 52" flatscreen, then go take a hot shower and mourn my 'loss'. F those people.

[G-Man]

What would really work on curbing the need for this invasive type of screening is if more folks took an active role in their comminities and didn't turn a blind eye to what they see. Here is a prime example:

For half an hour, Raymel Curry terrorized passengers on metro bus number 7. Security video shows him pacing the aisle and shouting on his way from downtown to Rainier Valley.

Audio captured on bus security cameras captured Curry loudly saying statements like "I'm in my zone, I'm in a gangster zone and there's nothing that can stop me so what the f*** are you f***ing with me for?"

Witnesses told police say Curry was already agitated when he boarded the bus, but within minutes he zeroed in on a victim.

"I'll beat your a**, boy" Curry yelled at 55-year-old Howard Hui. Nobody is sure why Curry picked Howard Hui. The mentally disabled man doesn't speak english and the two had never met before. Over and over Curry yelled at Hui and even into the bus camera "I'll do it on camera, I'm gonna punch you on camera."

Police and family members say the two had never met and that Curry seemed to become upset because Hui looked at him. "I'll beat your a** on this bus, homey give me a weird look," Curry yelled.

The rants and threats went on for miles. At times, Curry jumped up next to Hui and threatened him. Hui finally got off the bus at Rainier Avenue South and South McLellan\ Street, Curry was right behind him. Cameras show he made good on his threats, punching Hui and knocking him to the ground.

Copyright © 2010, KCPQ-TV

I suppose the real question is why didn't anyone on the bus step forward and do something about what was going on? Have we all degenerated into a bunch of New York City type residents who stick their heads in the sand and refuse to "get involved?" It made me ill to watch this on the news, I mean really, not even a 911 call by anyone on the bus? I have no doubt in my mind, had I been on that bus I'd be sitting in jail right now for rabbit punching the guy from behind. Which brings us to what I believe is the real problem with our society, we give criminals more rights than our law abiding citizens. Perhaps if we take the threat of prosecution off the table for those who stand up for victims or potential victims, folks would be more inclined to assist others and get involved. How does this relate to this thread's topic? I'm a firm believer that if more people had a "protect the hive" mentality and our laws were changed to encourage this ideology, full body scanners would not be necessary. Terrorists/criminals are not invisible, they contact a great many people prior to committing their crime(s) and all it takes is one person to foil their plans.

[bionic_one]

I watched a news report one time where they staged a little girl (around 10 years old) sitting on a bench, when some people would pass by, a van with no windows would pull up, and a guy would jump out, grab the girl, and drag her to the van. The girl would scream "help me this isn't my dadddy" and other things. In every single case, people just stood there and did nothing. Not one Fing thing.

Our society is completely screwed up. After saying "excuse me" 3 times to this 300 lb walmart shopping woman, I finally just moved her cart out of my way myself, to which she exclaimed "you're being very aggressive!"

Gotta stop here, my blood pressure is going up.

[G-Man]

I watched a news report one time where they staged a little girl (around 10 years old) sitting on a bench, when some people would pass by, a van with no windows would pull up, and a guy would jump out, grab the girl, and drag her to the van. The girl would scream "help me this isn't my dadddy" and other things. In every single case, people just stood there and did nothing. Not one Fing thing.

Having serverd in the USMC I can pretty much recall the situations that authorize the use of deadly force and preventing a kidnapping is one of them. Why can't civil courts adopt the same policies? Here is an excerpt from that policy:

(3) When a firearm is discharged, it will be fired with the intent of rendering the person at whom it is discharged incapable of continuing the activity or course of behavior prompting the individual to discharge a weapon.
(4) Warning shots are not authorized.

C. Circumstances for using Deadly Force. Deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity, as a last
resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed, and only under one or more of the following circumstances:
(1) In self-defense and the defense of others.
(2) In defense of property designated to be vital to the national security. See enclosure (1) 3 MCBO 5500.3A 24 Nov 99
(3) In defense of property not involving national security but inherently dangerous to others.
(4) To prevent or interrupt offenses that threaten serious injury or death to other persons (i.e., rape, aggravated assault, and armed robbery).
(5) To apprehend or prevent the escape of persons who present a serious threat to law enforcement officials or others, or when probable cause exists to believe that a person has committed offenses cited in paragraphs 5c(1) through 5c(4) above.
(6) When directed by the lawful order of competent authority consistent with paragraphs 5c(1) through 5c(5) above.

I'm pretty confident that if this policy was extended to all residents of the United States, there is no way a scene like that ever gets staged.

[Mike Carey]

I was thinking the same thing, seems like a pretty stupid thing to stage.

The national ID idea gets flack from both sides of the aisle - "show me your papers" is everyone's big concern. It's another smal step.

I don't have any solutions. I think getting off foriegn oil would be a good start though. Anyway you slice it we are stuck with terrorists - have been since what, the 70s now?