OK, so what about the new same sex marriage law?

[Mike Carey]

oh boy, please, winter run steelhead, start flooding in.

Let's keep it nice now.

[Bodofish]

The definition is defined by God as between one man and one women and again previously in our state was legally defined as just that, before the people west of the mountains redefined the "legal" definition of marriage "in Washington state"

Ahahahahahahahahaha and now it's the people of the West side of the State. And defined by God, which one?

Sorry man you're just funny...........

[G-Man]

All I will say is welcome to paying the marriage tax and good luck in divorce court. You gotta take the good with the bad.

[sickbayer]

All I will say is welcome to paying the marriage tax and good luck in divorce court. You gotta take the good with the bad.

[The Quadfather]

The definition is defined by God as between one man and one women and again previously in our state was legally defined as just that, before the people west of the mountains redefined the "legal" definition of marriage "in Washington state"

Oh man...It's just so hard to stand by and chew the popcorn. I don't think anybody here is trying to attack your feelings about God, but when you say that, it is just such a big open-ended statement. When you say something like this, you are telling people that (the entity that **You** see as God, has made the end all decision on the definition of something. You are telling people that God is for all people what (you) believe God to be for you, and that because you probably believe in **Your** God's word.... then all other people assumibly (sp?) believe in his word as well.

It's not meant to criticise your choice in worship, but just that you are telling other's that ** Your** God calls the shots.

I'm just saying that there is a whole wide world of beliefs and people out there, outside of our bubble here. Imagine if you were standing in the middle of India and spoke about your version of God and his laws. Would all the hindus around you be either right or wrong to disagree with you?.......... Just because there were maybe more hindus in the area, does it make their opinion right, or is your view still the most "Correct" view? It's a big world with lots of opinions.

[kingfisherman1]

I work with at-risk kids. I will say that the comment about confusing them on gender roles is correct. And it does degrade the family unit. But our society is full of man/woman jacked-up families, too. When I meet the parents of the kids I train, I understand why they are so screwed up. Some are gay. Most are not. And I've met a higher percentage of confused and unhappy gay folks than straight. So screw this whole thing (not literally). Lets catch some fish while we sit back and watch this once great nation go to crap, shall we? Hell, we can't even pass a budget and we're worried about gays getting to tie the knot and legalized pot (which should be legal, by the way). Our priorities are all screwed up.

[hewesfisher]

Ahahahahahahahahaha and now it's the people of the West side of the State. And defined by God, which one?

Sorry man you're just funny...........

Look at the results map Bodo. It's true the "west side" of the state, predominantly lead by the northern I-5 corridor counties, King County in particular, decided for the state. Yes, one east side county voted to approve the referendum, Whitman County, I was surprised at first until I realized it's home to WSU.

See for yourself here - http://vote.wa.gov/results/current/Refe ... ounty.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

29 counties in the state voted against the referendum, only 10 for it. Take just one county out of the equation, King County, and the referendum would not have passed, not even close. It would have been defeated by a margin of 52.23% against to 47.76% for.

Take some time to look at the lines drawn on some of the other political issues (right down the Cascades) and maybe you'll understand why the "west side decided" comments are made, then again maybe not.

I really wish these topics (74 and 502) were deleted because the comments are as controversial as the subject themselves. There is no win with either, and opinions on both sides of the issues are as divisive as during the campaign. The elections are over, let's just get on with fishing. That's what this site is about anyway, or at least used to be.

[bigskyx]

"I will say that the comment about confusing them on gender roles is correct"
Children are confused about many things. Life is confusing. It's the parent's job to explain in a healthy manor. Hopefully without judgement & discrimination.

Discussions of controversial subjects are important and can be enlightening if people remain civil. Civilizations evolve and we can either evolve along with or be angry & hateful about it. The tide has turned on this issue and there's no going back!

[Gringo Pescador]

I have a same sex family in my family circle - two moms and three kids (1 from one mom and 2 from the other). It is one of the most loving and "functional families I have ever seen. The kids (1 in high school, 1 in college and 1 in the Marines with 2 tours under his belt) are all VERY well adjusted and have no gender role confusion whatsoever. I have marched in the gay pride parade in support of them, I have the same love and affection for them as I do any of my family. My 3yo daughter has no gender role confusion because we are not teaching her any and will not teach her any - she can do anything the boys can do, the only gender role difference for her is that boys stand up to pee.
Oh and this family lives on the east side of the mountains

[racfish]

This is getting good *grabs popcorn*

Hahahahaha. That is the best comment in this thread. Let me put my uppers in and eat popcorn too.

[bigskyx]

I have a same sex family in my family circle - two moms and three kids (1 from one mom and 2 from the other). It is one of the most loving and "functional families I have ever seen. The kids (1 in high school, 1 in college and 1 in the Marines with 2 tours under his belt) are all VERY well adjusted and have no gender role confusion whatsoever. I have marched in the gay pride parade in support of them, I have the same love and affection for them as I do any of my family. My 3yo daughter has no gender role confusion because we are not teaching her any and will not teach her any - she can do anything the boys can do, the only gender role difference for her is that boys stand up to pee.
Oh and this family lives on the east side of the mountains

[kingfisherman1]

I have a same sex family on my mom's side. I also work closely with a lot of kids from same sex households...so I know what I'm talking about. My argument isn't based on faith (since I don't have one), bias or political affiliation (I'm a libertarian). It is based on experience.
I don't care who raises kids as a same sex couple, its none of my business. I don't care how you raise yours. That's none of my business.
But I'm not going to go tell religious folks, who get married before 'God', and believe marriage is between a man and a woman, that they have to redefine their definition of marriage. I don't, you don't and no government has the moral or legal authority to do that.

[MotoBoat]

I have a same sex family on my mom's side. I also work closely with a lot of kids from same sex households...so I know what I'm talking about. My argument isn't based on faith (since I don't have one), bias or political affiliation (I'm a libertarian). It is based on experience.
I don't care who raises kids as a same sex couple, its none of my business. I don't care how you raise yours. That's none of my business.


But I'm not going to go tell religious folks, who get married before 'God', and believe marriage is between a man and a woman, that they have to redefine their definition of marriage. I don't, you don't and no government has the moral or legal authority to do that.

I just ran completely and utterly out of popcorn, butter and salt, and now my smoke alarm can stop ringing from the lack of burnt popcorn! NOw to jump in head first.

To the last paragraph. I can not disagree more. I will break your statement into two separate subjects. Religious folks definition of marriage, and government has no moral or legal authority to redefine the definition of marriage. Not all heterosexual "folks" are "religious", nor are all "folks" married in a church before "God". Nor married by a member of the clergy. Some are married in a back yard, with a judge presiding or on the Vegas strip.

Regardless of where a couple is married, there is a marriage license issued by the State. Not the church!! So, by definition of "state" there must be a definition of marriage. They have the right, again they issue the marriage license! And based on that right, we (the people) have the right to agree or disagree with that definition through voting. Does that throw a wrench in what is written and believed by religious folk? Absolutely! To make things worse for believers, the bible does not recognize gay people. It is believed that a sexual preference of straight, gay, bye, or something else is a decision one makes at some point during there lives. Let me repeat "A DECISION"!!!

I don't remember deciding anything, the "attraction" to woman was decided for me. I never looked at a man or women and had to decide! The bible believes a gay man or woman can change their sexual preference, to that of a heterosexual one, simply by changing their mind.

That train of thought, is right there with when teachers in school thought a person using their left hand, was right handed. But just being lazy when using there left. Kids were smacked on there left hand with a ruler, to teach them to not be lazy and switch to the right hand. I continue to be left handed today. And might add, still attracted to the opposite sex, the attraction I was "born" with. Not the decision I made at some abstract point.

But I will agree that the bible has marriage defined as being between a man and woman, probably in the house of the lord (last part of the sentence is speculation on my part). Based on the below article, anyone can marry a couple with the correct certification.

So, one doesn't need a church, or preacher to get "legally" married.


How to Get Certified to Marry Couples
By Kristie Lorette, eHow Contributor

Marrying a couple is a great honor, and as a result many couples request that a friend or family member officiate the wedding instead of a traditional member of the clergy or justice of the peace. In order to perform the ceremony, the friend or family member must become certified and registered to marry couples. Completing the certification and registration requires only a few simple steps.

Read more: How to Get Certified to Marry Couples | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6367405_certifi ... z2EsT9Zjrl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


hewesfisher, this thread "IS" for discussing anything non fishing related, and we can, do, and will talk fishing where appropriate to do so, on this site. This topic is not comfortable to everyone, so dully noted.

Secondly, thanks for the website indicating what counties were responsible for what part of the vote. Until that was posted, I had no clue why the Eastern Wa poster was arguing that the West Siders were responsible for the initiative passing.

Even though there is more than one gay member in my family. I probably would have voted against gay marriage. Why? I must not be ready for it. I am not against gay people. I like people, no matter what there belief, or sexual orientation.

However, seeing two dudes or two dolls holding hands or showing public displays of affection by kissing, creeps me out. Not so much when chicks are kissing, as when dudes are bro-mancing in public. But, is still weird, and very unnatural.

Probably as unnatural as my wife and I showing public acts of affection or holding hands in view of a gay couple would be?

Gay's have always been around. It's just, that was hidden from public eye, and many times their family too until around the 70's. Much like a unwed pregnant female was.

As the general population grows. So does the percentage of Gay people. Gay numbers must now be, at a population where the sheer number gives a voice. A very strong voice. Take the vote of Gays and lesbians + heterosexual gay voter support , and you have more "yes" votes than "no".

Take away the sexual preference and what do you have? Just people! looking for rights, the same rights and benefits as any other married couple.

I guess I knew some day, gay and lesbian marriage could be legal. With or without my vote. Cause I am and have been teetering on the fence since it first appeared on the ballot, for that reason, and others. I did not vote this time around.

[Mike Carey]

The "Off Topic" area has always been a risky place to venture because these kind of polarizing topics can divide a group of otherwise congenial anglers. I hope the opinions and positions expressed don't cause rifts in people's online friendships.

I need so bad to catch a steelhead.

[AJ's Dad]

Being a christian, I guess you can lump me in with the group being referred to as "Religeous Folks". Before I became a christian, I had a dislike for people that "Chose" the Gay lifestyle. I made jokes about them, and I made slanderous comments to and about them. I was truly an ASS.
After being "Saved" I decided it was not my place to judge anyone. I don't have to agee with the choices other people make, but I also don't have the right or obligation to pass judgment on them for those choices.
Do I agree with same sex relationships or marriages? No, but that's just me and like others have said, that's what makes this country what it is. A place to choose freely how you want to live your life.
I have heard people say that being gay, weather one is male or female, is a choice, or a sickness. I have come to believe that being gay is simply as motoboat mentioned earlier. It's an attraction, and a person can not help who or what they are attracted to. A persons attractions are not chosen, they are what is natural to them. You may like the color red, while someone else likes blue. You may prefer catsup, while I prefer mustard. You may like beans and I might like broccoli. We can't help what we like, or what things or people attract us.
I do agree that same sex relationships can cause confusion in young people. I believe people are put on this earth to be fruitfull and to multiply, there's that religeon thing again. However, people can't physically multiply in a same sex relationship. A child is concieved by a opposite sex relationship. A man and a woman. If everyone was involved in same sex relationships, pretty soon there wouldn't be anyone around to vote on these controversial issues.

When I started this forum, I was very interested to see and read the different opinions and rationalizations people would have on this subject. I wasn't trying to stir up trouble. It certainly is an interesting discussion, and so far seems to be staying fairly respectfull and clean.

[dicinu]

I can understand some issues with PDA ( Public Display of Affection) with same sex. I still could careless what others do in or out of the bedroom. I also agree we each have our own beliefs and we all think we know whats right or wrong in these situations. It is just how we where brought up to believe. same goes for being a Bigot some were taught to be that way also. I hear all kinds of racial Slurs while fishing. black asian mexican russian Indian both red dot and feather. I tune stuff out due to my temper this is something I learned to do as I get older. I will crack jokes and talk to anyone while fishing or any other place. I like people to a point they intrigue me.

Were gays born that way? is it a thought process? can they affect kids? Hell I do know! But I do not re-call any kids being raise by 2 moms or 2 dads shooting or mass murdering or turning gay themselves. But I have heard of these issues with single parents! I have not nor care to research this but I do believe the percentage of single parents far out ways the same sex parents.

I accept everyone's post for the beliefs you have and were raised with, do I agree with them all No but this is my choice. I do love women I am shallow I marry for beauty then brains.

Some countries women are for barring children and men are for fun. it is what it is.

[rcthepirate]

The "Off Topic" area has always been a risky place to venture because these kind of polarizing topics can divide a group of otherwise congenial anglers. I hope the opinions and positions expressed don't cause rifts in people's online friendships.

I need so bad to catch a steelhead.

^^ What he said. I'd like to apologize for the abrasive comment I posted, hope nobody has any ill will. I certainly have none toward anyone who has posted on this thread, regardless of their position on the issue. Now, two more finals tomorrow and I'm off to the river.