Do you report violators to the WDFW?

[leahcim_dahc]

While fishing the Puyallup this weekend, a group of four decided to make a mess of their site by throwing empty cans into the bushes. Additionally, one of their peers decided to try and snag fish. I can say there may have been a remote possibility he was using a technique I am not familiar with...however, I am no big dummy. When fishing is slow, and an individual tosses out a good sized lure, reels it is at 800mph while jerking the hell out of it...that to me is intentional snagging or flossing (or both). I have only been fishing the Puyallup a very short time and have only seen people drift fishing...not looking like they are running a buzz bomb or PW dart jigging their line hard enough to turn a fish inside out.

A few weeks ago I was harassed by an FWO and was accused of fishing illegally (more than one rod). I was treated and talked to like I was a criminal. I pleaded my case...explained it had to have been a mistake on their part. To make a long story short, they accused me of having two lines in the water, because they saw two LED bobbers at my location at the same time. However, looking to my left...50 meters away were 4 LED bobbers, 100 meters away another 2 bobbers, and almost 175 meters were another pair of LED bobbers. They threatened to haul me off to jail, but in the end they decided they weren't going to push the issue. No citations, no nothing...I continued to fish as I was for the rest of the evening.

Basically, I would like to keep a few of those @$$hole FWO's in a small cage...don't feed them, poke sticks at them...and when I see REAL violators of the fish and game regulations...shake the cage up, throw in a helpless kitten, and turn the FWO's loose on the violators.

How many of you would make or have made the call and turned in people illegally fishing and/or hunting? Is it worth a grain of salt or has your report really even mattered? Or do you sit and fume swearing under your breath as you watch the jerk offs have an enjoyable time? Is it some code of silence or unspoken rule amongst fishermen to look the other way in spite of the violations, or do you make the call and be a rat? Personally, I wouldn't loose any sleep at night after I turned anyone in and I was thought a rat..... how about you?

[Marc Martyn]

It is unfortunate that you had that experience with the game officer. I have not experienced that myself.
In talking with an officer earlier this year, he mentioned to me that they are running into a lot of people that are very dangerous and many have outstanding warrants on them. This in mind, they are probably more wary of people in general and may act abrasive at times.
In reading many of the posts and reports from the west side of the state, it appears to me that there are more game officers per county than on the east side. The enforcement officers are really an extended branch of the WSP. Like any law enforcement officer, they also must keep their guard up. I am not defending the actions they took towards you, just stating that most of them are polite and quite helpful.
As far as turning in known violators- certainly. The use of our public lands is an earned privilege, not a right. Those that don't respect that idea, should be reported.

[leahcim_dahc]

Yeah...I do see your point about the people they are having to deal with and being cautious. Not to mention the work it must take to police the entire state, especially with the amount of people and acreage to cover. It just took me by surprise, really. I have lived in this state for about ten years now, and that was my first experience with a game warden. I haven't ran into any before or since...so we'll see the next go around.

With regards to violators...I should clarify. What I mean are those willfully and flagrantly violating known regulations. I will admit when i first moved to this state and started fishing the waters, I was a bit overwhelmed at the amount of regulations...and out of plain ignorance ended up violating one or two laws. I was either corrected by individuals that were fishing nearby, or I thoroughly read the regulations and didn't make those mistakes again. As a matter of fact, last week I went fishing on the river, caught me a nice humpy....bonked it on the head...gutted it...tossed it in the cooler. I then made my way back to my fishing spot to fill out my catch card. Opened my tackle bag, to my surprise I didn't put my regulations, catch card, or my license back in my bag after I finished reading them. I forgot them in my toolbox at work. Oops!! Needless to say, I quickly put my gear away and made a hasty exit. I went to work and filled out my catch card and put it back in my bag.

Basically, If there was an individual fishing near me, and they violate a regulation, simply because they were like me and didn't thoroughly read the regs or understand them...I would correct them. Those that intentionally violate the regs...I would turn them in.

[Marc Martyn]

Oops!! Needless to say, I quickly put my gear away and made a hasty exit. I went to work and filled out my catch card and put it back in my bag.

Too Funny! I'll bet you did!#-o

Just in browsing through the regs for the west side of the mountains, there are many more restrictions, especially on rivers, than on the east side. It appears to me that when fishing the rivers over there, one better known exactly where you are at all times and are following the regs closely. I think most coastal regions around the nation have the same complicated restrictions because of the fish migration.

[leahcim_dahc]

Just in browsing through the regs for the west side of the mountains, there are many more restrictions, especially on rivers, than on the east side. It appears to me that when fishing the rivers over there, one better known exactly where you are at all times and are following the regs closely.

Most definitely! Almost overly complicated at times.

Too Funny! I'll bet you did!

What was really funny about the whole thing...I just pulled up to this particular spot a couple of hours before work. There was an older gentleman fishing about 25 meters to my left. I hooked the humpy and forgot my net in my truck, so I asked this fella for help landing it with his net. He was more than happy to help. We got it in, I thanked him and went about my business.

I hooked the fish, got it in, gutted it, found I forgot my license, catch card, and split the scene all within a time span of about 10 minutes. Didn't bother giving my neighbor an explanation for my retreat...I just split. I can almost imagine this guy looking around after I left, confused saying, "What the hell just happened ??!!".

[cavdad45]

I have had only positive experiences with game officers and I try to be as polite and positive with them as possible. They do run into some dangerous people out there. Also remember that nearly every person they meet is armed with a gun or atleast a knife. Some of us old-timers can still remember Claude Dallas who out drew and shot and killed two Idaho wardens and then went back to his tent and finished each of them off with a .22 behind the ear. I respect their unenviable job.

I have to admit that I have been too lax when it comes to reporting violations. Most of the ones I witness are usually minor and it would seem to me like I'm ratting them out on technicalities. Two years ago, I witnessed a couple camping who were limiting out and then taking the fish to camp and returning to fish and limiting out again.
I tried to call, but had no cell service in the area. Like most violations they have to be caught in the act to make a case and by the time that could be done, the point would be mute.

I would like to see wardens walking the lakes and checking licenses. There are so many people out there that I know aren't licensed and they are the ones who skip the rest of the rules, too.

[leahcim_dahc]

Some of us old-timers can still remember Claude Dallas who out drew and shot and killed two Idaho wardens and then went back to his tent and finished each of them off with a .22 behind the ear.

Wow! I have never heard that before. I can understand their extreme caution. I guess it was just the way the warden came across. I thought I was being polite, by asking how they were doing when I was approached. The officer didn't even make an effort to respond other than asking me "What made you think you could get away with fishing with two poles?". Then when I stated he was incorrect...and even showed my other poles that were leaning against my vehicle were not even setup for fishing the way he claimed I was, his attitude got even worse.

I had purchased my license over the internet, printed out the temporary, signed it and put it in my wallet. When my permanent license came in the mail I left for annual training in Yakima, put the license in my bag and forgot to sign it. He made it be fully known at that point I was fishing illegally, and having an unsigned license was a serious crime. I asked to borrow a pen, as I didn't have one on me and he told me "No! Go find one!". At that point I was between a rock and a hard spot. Do I reel my rig in, pack up and go find someone to borrow a pen from or wander off leaving my rig in the water. At that time, being in the mood he apparently was in, I could have been ticketed for fishing with no valid license...if I reeled in my gear. Or, I could have left it in and wandered off to find a pen, only to be ticketed for leaving my gear in the water unattended or not in my immediate control. I chose to wander off and find a pen.

Meh...oh, well. Hopefully, my next run-in won't be too bad.

[Bodofish]

Marc,
You are absolutly right about the attitude and difference seperated by the mountains. On the west side they're a revenue grabbing bunch of ticket writers. I hate it but it's needed when you see the shear numbers of idiots out making a mess of things with little regard for nature or the regs.
A short trip over the passes and I've had WDFW officers strike up a conversation and then invite me down to their favorite secret spot for a little C&R on some big boys in a little creek. Sorry my lips are sealed. I even ran into one while out four wheeling with my boys who decieded to run the Naches Trail with us. It was kind of cool when he caught up with us after one stretch. We'd run into some bad actors breaking things (historic cabin). We were armed at least as well as the boobs and when he showed up with the ticket book, it was icing on the cake.

For the record, yes I do report violators and I feel good about it.

Chad,
Just think how you'd feel after a long day of dealing with boobs all day. It's the old cop syndrome. Still no excuse for badge pushing, in my sage wisdom of trial and error learning (I used to be rather out spoken and bold), I'd probably politely say as little as possible and remember his badge and name and write a letter when I got home.

[Marc Martyn]

Within the last decade or so, the enforcement officers are getting more involved with drug enforcement. Many rivers cross international borders. Also, I am sure that drugs are transported up rivers that terminate in the Sound area. These WDFW guys aren't just out checking to see if you are using the correct tackle. Many times they do a NCIC check on questionable people. This is a nation wide warrant check. It is amazing how many wanted individuals are brought into custody by the WDFW. I saw this happen this spring out at Fish Lake near Spokane. They hauled in a guy that I had just visited with at the launch who had a felony warrant out on him!8-[

Since 9/11, I am sure that they also have duties regarding national security. Gone are the days of the happy go lucky game warden that has nothing to do but go to area lakes and chat with the fisherman and give out warning citations. Sad but true.
For those not old enough or can't recall the Claude Dallas case, here is an article on the murders:

www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=50150

[gpc]

This case was a little before my time and was new to me as well. But let me get this straight.........he killed 2 wardens AND escaped from jail and only got 24 years for it ?!? Thats really a shame.

[Marc Martyn]

...........and was released early for.....good behavior:scratch:
Go figure:-s

[leahcim_dahc]

Just think how you'd feel after a long day of dealing with boobs all day. It's the old cop syndrome. Still no excuse for badge pushing, in my sage wisdom of trial and error learning (I used to be rather out spoken and bold), I'd probably politely say as little as possible and remember his badge and name and write a letter when I got home.

Don't get me wrong guys...I have never doubted they have a difficult job and aren't deserving of the utmost respect because of that. However, my beef was no matter how difficult their job is, they are still a professional and should act in the same manner. I have an issue with people who treat others with absolutely no respect but expect or better yet...demand respect be shown to them.

I feel if I show I am no threat simply by my body gestures and how I speak to the officer's upon initial contact, there should be absolutely no reason an officer shouldn't talk to me in a manner of mutual respect. Anyrate, I am kinda wandering off topic a bit...

For those not old enough or can't recall the Claude Dallas case, here is an article on the murders:

www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=50150

Thanks for the link...interesting and disturbing story.


Chad

[A9]

I'd be scared to death having to walk through some spots and write up the people they (wardens) have to see....

No offense to anyone, but the rivers, especially now with the Humpy run, bring out a lot of bad people out to the rivers...Might be flossers/snaggers, tweakers breaking in to cars at launches or parking lots, or just very impolite and rude people. I wouldn't be too comfortable walking 1/4 mile in by myself at a low light time to find yourself surrounded by some really sketchy people...

They have a tougher job then most people think, aand they got to face some odd people, so I respect their job, even though sometimes they can be mean to you even when you are abiding by the laws...

[leahcim_dahc]

I'd be scared to death having to walk through some spots and write up the people they (wardens) have to see....

If they are scared that bad...wrong line of work to be in.

They have a tougher job then most people think, aand they got to face some odd people, so I respect their job, even though sometimes they can be mean to you even when you are abiding by the laws...

Not so much them being "mean", someone being "mean" I can ignore...but accusing of a crime that never took place to begin with, then when a person defends their position, they (FWO) talk to them in a manner that just adds fuel to an already sketchy situation, isn't a good idea. Their jobs aren't to goad and chastise, but to enforce...and if laws are broken that need enforced, citations are issued or arrests are made. Not talk down to a person, then don't issue any citations, warnings or anything...but, tell you "We know what we saw, I sent your name up my chain of command and we'll see what they want to do with you.". That to me is just an officer with a large ego and nothing but time on their hands. If I did something wrong, which they so eloquently put it...I should have immediately issued a citation, arrested, whatever it took and I would have fought it out in court...not stand there like a three year old getting my butt chewed because I drew on the wall and poked the dog in the eye, then for them to just walk away as if nothing had happened.

I have been accused by other law enforcement officials of minor crimes which I know I had not committed. For instance, I was stopped by a Pierce County Sheriff a couple weeks ago and was told I got clocked doing 50 mph in a 30 mph zone. I looked at the officer and said, "I don't think so.", simply because the moment I would have passed his radar gun was less than fifty meters past an intersection where I came to a complete stop and made a right hand turn. It was virtually impossible to have the vehicle I was driving go from zero to 50 in less than fifty meters. Additionally, his story changed three times in the twenty minute time span it took to have me sit on the side of the road. The story changed from him clocking me that fast, to it looked like you were going that fast, then here is the kicker..."You had to have been going over the speed limit, because I pulled out of the Safeway parking lot, and I had to do fifty to catch up with you.". The cop didn't realize, I had moved from a 35 mph zone to a 45 mph zone 300 meters down the road before the red and blues came on.

Anyrate to make a long story short, he pulled me over...allegedly for speeding 20 mph over the posted speed limit. Which, I don't know about anyone else...but 20 mph, especially in this day and age of "Speed Strictly Enforced" signs everywhere...usually means an immediate ticket. Not to mention I was unable to find or produce a valid insurance card (which, yes I have insurance...but couldn't find my card.), which in of itself is a $500 ticket. Only in the end to tell me I had a bad attitude, nearly talked myself into a ticket, and gave me a verbal warning. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I guess I just had a bad week with law enforcement people...PC sheriff early in the week, and then the game warden that weekend. It's all good though...caught a 15# catfish about an hour after they left anyway...so I felt much better.

[cavdad45]

This case was a little before my time and was new to me as well. But let me get this straight.........he killed 2 wardens AND escaped from jail and only got 24 years for it ?!? Thats really a shame.

He was originally sentenced to 30 years. 10 each for manslaughter and 10 for using a firearm in the commision of a crime. He escaped in the late 80's and was caught about a year and a half later after having plastic surgery. When he was tried for prison escape, he was found "not guilty." His likeable personality swayed both juries. The only reason his first sentence was so long was that the judge ( his name was Lodge) dropped the hammer on him, as the jury was unwilling.

I did not know he was released.

Getting back to the topic, I have never had problems with game enforcement officers. Some of my favorite grouse hunting spots were given to me by an OSP game officer who came knocking on my door because one of my neighbors said I was holding wildlife in captivity. When he saw my pheasant and quail pens and their well-kept conditions, we struck up a great conversation about bird hunting and bird dogs all the while sitting back on my deck drinking coffee. He shared with me several fruitful hunting areas and has been a friend ever since. By the way, the quail and pheasant are legal to own, atleast in Oregon.

[littleriver]

Not sure if anyone's been following the circus down at the mouth of the toutle.

Big coho run and combat fishing at it's worst. Was told by a reliable source that one evening last week 5 or 6 WDFW enforcement types along with several county sheriff deputies showed up and started arresting "snaggers". They were dragging offenders off in handcuffs.

I've generally had good experiences with the enforcers. And reflecting on the bad experiences these were usually my own darned fault.

But this very aggressive response to illegal fishing down on the toutle, IMHO, is a very positive thing. I strongly suspect that the offenders were turned in by other sporties who watched them and were turned off by their activities.


I'm going to put the "hotline" number on my cell phone speed dial and call in every offense I observe from now on.

[leahcim_dahc]

It's great to see them dragging those people out of there. I read an article the other day on tribnet.com saying they were doing stings all along the rivers...this article was about the Puyallup, Carbon and White Rivers. And yes the hotline number is going in my phone as well. Call them with the information...give a 10-digit grid(MGRS) or the long/lat of where I am and let them have their fun.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/loca ... 54912.html


Chad