Occupy Skagit II

[natetreat]

It's coming up again this year. Last year the protest garnered a lot of attention from the media as well as responses from WDFW. I'm on the fence about it, not sure how I feel about it. But WaLakes doesn't have a topic on it yet, and it's an important one.

Talk amongst yourselves



LOL

[Idstud]

I must have missed this what is it about?

[natetreat]

Occupy skagit is a movement to restore the catch and release season on the Skagit river. Since the native Skagit steelhead are ESA listed, there has not been a C&R season for a number of years. There are conflicting opinions as to whether morality rates from catching native fish are substantial enough to support angler pressure. Some studies that they've talked about put mortality at 14%, others say that it has a negligible affect on populations. The escapement of wild fish in the Skagit has increased significantly since we closed it, we got around 6,000 fish back last year. Nowhere near historical numbers, but that's a pretty significant return. It rivals some of the rivers on the OP where we have both a gill net fishery and a C&R plus one dead native fishery. Last year the protest made local news, and garnered a few responses from WDFW. It would give anglers a place close to home to go fishing February-April, rather than have to make the long drive to coastal rivers.

[Idstud]

Wow thanks for the info Natetreat

[Norm]

I would have went last year if I wasnt working, im always up for a restored oppertunity. The nates get to net and kill, we might as well get a catch n release

[spoonman]

Gunna do my best to be there. The one thing I worry about is the casual fisherman who doesnt understand proper cnr. Or the need to release them at all.

[natetreat]

Or if a catch and release season will mean native nets. There are a lot more fish than some of our other populations that do have a catch and kill season, but I don't know the numbers of those returns. I'm not sure how to find out total numbers of fish taken by the tribes. If the nets come out, it's game over.

[bigskyx]

The majority of the people that I see while fishing don't practice proper C&R. I hope they keep it closed!

[natetreat]

Okay. When would it be okay in your mind to open it? How many fish do we need back?

[primetime]

The majority of the people that I see while fishing don't practice proper C&R. I hope they keep it closed!

Majority of those people won't participate in in the c&r season. Those are usually meat fisherman that mishandle native steelhead.

[bigskyx]

Okay. When would it be okay in your mind to open it? How many fish do we need back?

I'm not qualified to answer that Nate. Obviously different for each river. If they did indeed get 6000 back in the Skagit system I'm happy to hear it and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize that.

[natetreat]

That's the reason why we need to have the discussion.

[spokey9]

The majority of the people that I see while fishing don't practice proper C&R. I hope they keep it closed!

That's pretty much nails how i feel about it. I know how to handle fish and still choose not to participate in fisheries that i'd have a good chance of hooking a native fish. I believe that these fish are in a bad enough situation that any unnecessary stress (like the fatigue and potential harm from catch & release) is an not something i want to have on my conscious. I've encountered a few wild fish and while i'm thankful for chance to experience them, it's always bittersweet. At the end of the day i feel more guilt than pride for potentially lowering their chances to make it to the gravel and do their thing. I mean no disrespect to those that enjoy C&R season for wild fish, just my personal opinion.

[bigskyx]

That's the reason why we need to have the discussion.

Agreed. I also agree with everything Spokey9 wrote. I've been handling fish for 53 years, I'm very careful, mishaps still occur. These fish are in serious trouble. It's plain selfishness IMO to take chances with the survival of such a magnificent species for a few hours of personal entertainment.

[spoonman]

That's the reason why we need to have the discussion.

Agreed. I also agree with everything Spokey9 wrote. I've been handling fish for 53 years, I'm very careful, mishaps still occur. These fish are in serious trouble. It's plain selfishness IMO to take chances with the survival of such a magnificent species for a few hours of personal entertainment.

But the skagit run is a healthy run. Far healthier than most anyway, I think a cnr season would be great personally. Thats all they have in many places in canada. And their steelhead semm to be doing fine. And of course youre welcome to your opinion, but given a chance to go fish the skeena for big natives you wouldnt go? I just got invited to go on a moosehunt in Merritt bc.guess what else is there, the Thompson river and you can bet im bringing my rod to tangle with those legendary fish.

[natetreat]

That's the reason why we need to have the discussion.

Agreed. I also agree with everything Spokey9 wrote. I've been handling fish for 53 years, I'm very careful, mishaps still occur. These fish are in serious trouble. It's plain selfishness IMO to take chances with the survival of such a magnificent species for a few hours of personal entertainment.

I certainly can identify with that sentiment. At the same time, I really do think that appreciating the fish is part of the reason why they're there. As for the Occupy Skagit movement, that's one of the main reasons why I'm not jumping on board. We have 6k native fish coming back now, with no pressure. The Hoh River can't even meet its escapement of 2400. That's what a C&R fishery looks like in Washington.

If they opened the Skagit, the "incidental" mortality would be justification for netting. Once the nets get in the water, all it takes is one year and the system crashes.

As for C&R, when properly handled, these fish can take it and then some. But if you have folks gilling 'em for a picture, dragging them up the bank and scraping their scales off in nets, some of them are going to die. A lot of studies with a lot of numbers are thrown around in the debates on this, the high number I heard was about 14% of the fish die every year from C&R. Low estimates are much more appealing to the C&R guys, but we won't know until we do a study on it.

I think both sides have a point, but I'm hoping that we can just let the run come back strong, maybe until we get 10, 15k fish, then maybe leave it open until mid-march.

In the meantime, maybe a pay-to-play or lottery situation, where you are given a day to fish, you file a trip plan with WDFW and report your catch with them so they can actually get a definitive study on C&R mortality rates. Right now there is so much speculation about the actual impacts C&R has that I don't really know which side of the fence to come down on. I do know that some of the runs that I've fished in the upper stretches of coastal rivers, I've caught the same fish 4-5 times, and each time it has just as much life in him as the first. I make it a point not to come back to that run again for a while to leave 'em alone and let them recuperate.

One of the main draws of fishing for native fish, IMO, is that you have so much more fishable water. Hatchery brats run straight for the hatchery, and don't go above into the 100's of miles of water we have above the hatchery. Space, and gorgeous water are the main draw. You won't be able to find that with a brat fishery.

[bigskyx]

"But the skagit run is a healthy run."

According to who? By what standards? From what I can find the count reached the established FLOOR of 6000 this year for the first time in several years. Don't waste time comparing our local rivers to Alaska or Canada, apples & oranges. Each river system is unique and needs to be analyzed individually.

Here's some slightly outdated, but good reading.
http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/2012/ ... -concerns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bigskyx]

We have 6k native fish coming back now, with no pressure. The Hoh River can't even meet its escapement of 2400. That's what a C&R fishery looks like in Washington.

If they opened the Skagit, the "incidental" mortality would be justification for netting. Once the nets get in the water, all it takes is one year and the system crashes.

If that's true that's a full stop right there

I'm hoping that we can just let the run come back strong, maybe until we get 10, 15k fish, then maybe leave it open until mid-march.

In the meantime, maybe a pay-to-play or lottery situation, where you are given a day to fish, you file a trip plan with WDFW and report your catch with them so they can actually get a definitive study on C&R mortality rates. Right now there is so much speculation about the actual impacts C&R has that I don't really know which side of the fence to come down on.

Definitely need more data. For now err on the side of caution!!

One of the main draws of fishing for native fish, IMO, is that you have so much more fishable water. Hatchery brats run straight for the hatchery, and don't go above into the 100's of miles of water we have above the hatchery. Space, and gorgeous water are the main draw. You won't be able to find that with a brat fishery.

I share your appreciation for those pristine stretches of river but also realize the benefits of leaving them that way. Upper stretches of rivers & streams are spawning grounds, nurseries. It's good to leave some places to nature.

[spoonman]

"But the skagit run is a healthy run."

According to who? By what standards? From what I can find the count reached the established FLOOR of 6000 this year for the first time in several years. Don't waste time comparing our local rivers to Alaska or Canada, apples & oranges. Each river system is unique and needs to be analyzed individually.

Here's some slightly outdated, but good reading.
http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/2012/ ... -concerns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree they need to be looked at individually, thats the problem. The skagit gets lumped in with all the other puget sound rivers. But has a way healthier run of native steel. And while maybe not this year I hope to see a cnr season again. Thats the purpose of occupy skagit not to just open it whenever but to look at each system individually. I think agree on alot more of this issue than we disagree.Btw I am not omparing our rivers to rivers in canada, I was simply responding to your statement that you would not fish fisheries where an encounter with a wild steelhead are likely.

[natetreat]

"But the skagit run is a healthy run."

According to who? By what standards? From what I can find the count reached the established FLOOR of 6000 this year for the first time in several years. Don't waste time comparing our local rivers to Alaska or Canada, apples & oranges. Each river system is unique and needs to be analyzed individually.

Here's some slightly outdated, but good reading.
http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/2012/ ... -concerns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree they need to be looked at individually, thats the problem. The skagit gets lumped in with all the other puget sound rivers. But has a way healthier run of native steel. And while maybe not this year I hope to see a cnr season again. Thats the purpose of occupy skagit not to just open it whenever but to look at each system individually. I think agree on alot more of this issue than we disagree.Btw I am not omparing our rivers to rivers in canada, I was simply responding to your statement that you would not fish fisheries where an encounter with a wild steelhead are likely.

If it can support it, I'm all for it. From what I've read, C&R has a very small impact on returns. I think that we could at least open it until mid-march, selective gear. I find our management decisions hypocritical when you compare our escapement goals on the Skagit with say, the Hoh or Queets. The Hoh has a goal of 2,400 fish, and it hasn't met escapement in years. And it has nets, and a catch and kill fishery. I also think that it's frustrating that to fish rivers february through June we have to drive 200 miles to get to an open river. It's also annoying that our hatchery returns are so pathetic. Steelheading is frustrating. I may move to Oregon.