Entertaining read guys

[Weekend-warrior17]

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/ ... d-lawsuit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[natetreat]

It's not entertaining, it's enraging. Because this stupid lawsuit will ruin steelheading for us. The wild fish conservancy lost my support a long time ago, they're a bunch of fundamentalists. If we put zero hatchery fish in the rivers, guess what we get? Closed rivers. No fishing. Crowds on the ones that are open.

[Weekend-warrior17]

Alright sounds good Nate , i try to think from both sides and leave opinion aside(Take a look at my avatar those are defiantly hatchery fish). I'd say you being a guide this isn't your favorite that's understandable.

[natetreat]

It's not entertaining, it's enraging. Because this stupid lawsuit will ruin steelheading for us. The wild fish conservancy lost my support a long time ago, they're a bunch of fundamentalists. If we put zero hatchery fish in the rivers, guess what we get? Closed rivers. No fishing. Crowds on the ones that are open.

Let’s say this lawsuit goes to court, and — worst-case scenario — a judge orders WDFW to not release the spring’s smolt crop. Two winters later, we Seattle, Monroe, Auburn, Arlington, Concrete and Everson steelheaders — seething mad about a lack of local fish — head over to Forks, pack the rivers, maybe a few more guys keep wilds in protest.

This is what is already happening. I'm putting more gas in my truck, without raising rates to put you guys on fish. I'm crowding out the locals on the OP. We have access roads being closed because of the increase in traffic on the Nooch. We have bumper boats on the runs that are there, and we have guys staying at home and not buying licenses.

Give me something that I can support, something based on facts. What little interaction wild fish have with brats is nothing compared to habitat destruction, dams, ocean conditions and even the weather have on returns. Except that the government is latching onto this idea why? Because it doesn't cost them a dime to stop putting fish into the river. restoration, dam removal, tribal netting... they all cost money! And we have a bunch of amateur ichthyologists pounding their adipose bibles and going on a witch hunt and burning brats in the town square. It makes me downright angry. The only ones winning here are the lawyers.

[natetreat]

Alright sounds good Nate , i try to think from both sides and leave opinion aside. I'd say you being a guide this isn't your favorite that's understandable.

There is no opinion here bro, it's the truth. I protect native fish as much as anyone does, but the science just doesn't back it up. This is like you breaking your leg and the doctor goes out and buys you a new shoe. Being a guide has something to do with it. It means that I make damn sure that I have all the facts before I make an opinion. Because with no hatchery fish, there are no fish to catch. Look at how well occupy skagit has gone. Everything is closing for the native fish in the entire puget sound. I assume you like to catch steelhead. Our rivers will close october 31st if this lawsuit wins.

[Weekend-warrior17]

It's not entertaining, it's enraging. Because this stupid lawsuit will ruin steelheading for us. The wild fish conservancy lost my support a long time ago, they're a bunch of fundamentalists. If we put zero hatchery fish in the rivers, guess what we get? Closed rivers. No fishing. Crowds on the ones that are open.

Let’s say this lawsuit goes to court, and — worst-case scenario — a judge orders WDFW to not release the spring’s smolt crop. Two winters later, we Seattle, Monroe, Auburn, Arlington, Concrete and Everson steelheaders — seething mad about a lack of local fish — head over to Forks, pack the rivers, maybe a few more guys keep wilds in protest.

This is what is already happening. I'm putting more gas in my truck, without raising rates to put you guys on fish. I'm crowding out the locals on the OP. We have access roads being closed because of the increase in traffic on the Nooch. We have bumper boats on the runs that are there, and we have guys staying at home and not buying licenses.

Give me something that I can support, something based on facts. What little interaction wild fish have with brats is nothing compared to habitat destruction, dams, ocean conditions and even the weather have on returns. Except that the government is latching onto this idea why? Because it doesn't cost them a dime to stop putting fish into the river. restoration, dam removal, tribal netting... they all cost money! And we have a bunch of amateur ichthyologists pounding their adipose bibles and going on a witch hunt and burning brats in the town square. It makes me downright angry. The only ones winning here are the lawyers.

The ones that say hatchery fish have interaction with native fish are also against the habitat destruction, and dams obviously that rest you listed is just nature and some say that should be the only interaction so what are you getting at??? If you can control something such as hatchery fish that take away from natives (natural) success rate why wouldn't you?

I aint here to argue with you , i can tell your all hyped up and ready to go on the topic (means there hasn't been one on here for awhile) haha. Someone else take over if that's what y'all are looking for.

[natetreat]

I see, you're just trolling. Thanks for the heads up.

[Weekend-warrior17]

I see, you're just trolling. Thanks for the heads up.

Im being serious about the topic, i'm just not gonna debate this. Not intending to "troll"

[RiverChromeGS]

There is absolutely zero proof that hatchery fish are weaking wild stock. The idea itself when you think of it is absolutely retarded. Less than 100 hatchery fish came back to the cascade this year, all before february. Yet 95% of skagit wild fish come after february and gets 6000+ fish returning. SO REALLY how many hatchery fish are honestly spawning with a wild partner. Maybe... A dozen at most? Out of 6000? Well... More than a dozen die in a single tribal net set... Hell even a catch and release fishery can kill more than that in a few days through release mortaility... The whole thing is unbelievable... Bunch of fly flicking purists who want meat fishermen off "their" rivers so they can continue to catch nothing, but just with less hatchery fish targeting people around. Pathetic. I found an article that actually shows true facts on this. Let me look for it

[RiverChromeGS]

The Native Fish Society and Wild Fish Conservancy are out for personal gain... Do not buy into their bulls**t. They have no proof to their claims and are simply using dwindling steelhead runs to support their own campaign to kill all hatchery fish and get everyone off the river. The article Weekend.Warrior posted is a good read, perfectly showing how their claims are nothing but complete bulls**t. This one is a good one also and theres one more i want to find that was good.




NFS Facts – What the Native Fish Society and Other Radical Groups Do Not Want You to Know…
Posted by TRSAadmin on Jan 28, 2014 in Uncategorized | 2 comments

The NFS has sued to halt hatchery plants on the Sandy River, claiming that hatchery practices harm wild fish. All the wild spring Chinook in the Sandy River are of hatchery ancestry. They are suing us to protect the fish we propagated to support the fishery.

The NFS supported the barbless hook initiative on the Columbia River.

The NFS campaigned against the Legislative initiative to list Hunting and Fishing as a Constitutional Right in the State of Oregon.

The NFS is a 501(c) 3 Corporation, but has a paid staff to push their radical agenda.

The NFS agenda to halt hatchery operations reduces sport fishing opportunities and devastates our struggling economy.

The NFS claims in litigation that the existence of hatchery fish in the Sandy River has a harmful effect on their spiritual experience while fly fishing.

The NFS claims that is costs taxpayers thousands to produce a single hatchery Salmon. The fact is a High School science class can produce thousands of smolts for a few hundred dollars.

The NFS has filed numerous law suits against the ODFW which have cost the Sportsman and taxpayers thousands of dollars in the State of Oregon.

The NFS states in the Columbia Bulletin that the Sandy River fisherman can seek out other streams to fish for Salmon and Steelhead.

The time is now to stand up for future generations of fishermen and say enough.
TRSA is an all volunteer organization. Our sole purpose is to support and promote hatchery operations in the State of Oregon in an effort to enhance fishing opportunities for all fisherman. This also helps to promote family recreation, unity and health

[natetreat]

Yet 95% of skagit wild fish come after february and gets 6000+ fish returning. SO REALLY how many hatchery fish are honestly spawning with a wild partner. Maybe... A dozen at most? Out of 6000?

But.. but... But danny! That would mean that .2% of the wild fish breed with hatchery fish! Every teeny tiny bit that we can do to save the majestic creatures !allahu akbar! we should absolutely do! I would gladly give up my right to bonk a fish and stand in line at Tokul creek to save just one native steelhead. It serves us gear chuckers and bait slingers right for being selfish fish eaters and not respecting the resource that we have!

[mizm05]

Wow. In reading the comments on that story, it actually surprises me how many guys support getting rid of hatchery fish. I, for one, don't believe the wild numbers would get any better even if you did eliminate the hatchery fish.

[Steelheadin360]

The Native Fish Society and Wild Fish Conservancy are out for personal gain... Do not buy into their bulls**t.

BINGO!!! Just like the NRA. Bunch of radicals. Modern day "THE WORLD IS COMING TO AND END" groups

[jd39]

I'm going to sue to ban dogs, their impact on puget sound wolf populations is out of control and unsustainable, something has to be done! Then next up it's cats, their impact on puget sound mountain lion populations has to be combatted at all costs! Passionate about your furry little ecological disasters? Sorry that's just too bad, I know what is best and that my narrow interest far outweighs the broad based support these furry abominations enjoy!
That makes about as much sense to me as this wild vs hatchery BS, as if it's an either or proposition in the first place. In the meantime i won't be spending anymore money on steelhead gear, sorry NW employees of tackle manufacturers your jobs don't matter, just ask these wild fish zealots.

[RiverChromeGS]

I'm going to sue to ban dogs, their impact on puget sound wolf populations is out of control and unsustainable, something has to be done! Then next up it's cats, their impact on puget sound mountain lion populations has to be combatted at all costs! Passionate about your furry little ecological disasters? Sorry that's just too bad, I know what is best and that my narrow interest far outweighs the broad based support these furry abominations enjoy!
That makes about as much sense to me as this wild vs hatchery BS, as if it's an either or proposition in the first place. In the meantime i won't be spending anymore money on steelhead gear, sorry NW employees of tackle manufacturers your jobs don't matter, just ask these wild fish zealots.

Hahaha that about sums it up!

[natetreat]

I blame fly fishermen.

[calicoi]

Where is the counter to the argument though? I think we can all agree that mixed breeding of wild and hatchery stocks is a minimal impact, but they stepped up and are making a statement, trying to do something.
How many user groups have set up habitat restoration efforts since that is probably the number one cause of declining stocks? How many groups have tried to sue the state over nets on ESA species?
I really don't know the answers to those questions, but the way I see it, if people want to keep fishing these fish something is going to have to change.
A bunch of flea flickers found a way to get there ideas on the table, make their impact.
What's the other percentage of river fishers going to do to make theirs?

[schu7498]

If you support the wild fish activist view points please do your own research. There is very very little actual facts to back up thier opinion. you have to be aware of causation vs correlation to understand how bias the studies are.

[schu7498]

ban gillnets and all this wild vs hatchery will be forgotten about.

[RiverChromeGS]

ban gillnets and all this wild vs hatchery will be forgotten about.

Simple as that... Removing hatcheries will do nothing. Removing nets would make instant spectacular results, and theres real support for this claim... Such as the skagit... Ever since netting and fishing has been shut down after february, runs have SKYROCKETED well above escapement, but guess what still exists? HATCHERY FISH!! Ooh its a miracle! How could a run possibly rebound with hatchery fish in the system?????????? These people are clueless.