WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Anglinarcher » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:38 pm

Gisteppo wrote:Given things like reducing costs, they will stop using certain suppliers and minimize shipping costs by consolidating this or moving that. Any business that isn't making changes to streamline their operation right now is ludicrous.

E
Well said. So, will they leave or will they stay? Only time will tell. It is interesting that when Buck Knives and Cabelas moved into the area, they considered Spokane WA and Post Falls Idaho. Both considered Post Falls Idaho to be the better option.

If the cost to move all operations to another state is less then the tax and regulatory burden that any business is experiencing, they will move.

Just like Gisteppo said [quote-Gisteppo] Any business that isn't making changes to streamline their operation right now is ludicrous. [/quote]
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Gisteppo » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:42 pm

Ironically, PF is poorer for business, but if all you care about is taxes, thats your destination of choice. Spokane offers better services (by a long shot) from the city for the tax dollar, has better transportation access (more highways from more directions, as well as better rail access). Shame that they decided to put Wal-Belas in PF, but good for our local businesses.

E

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Anglinarcher » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:05 pm

Gisteppo wrote:Ironically, PF is poorer for business, but if all you care about is taxes, thats your destination of choice. Spokane offers better services (by a long shot) from the city for the tax dollar, has better transportation access (more highways from more directions, as well as better rail access). Shame that they decided to put Wal-Belas in PF, but good for our local businesses.

E
Your points are well taken, but it is competition that keeps all prices down. I am not so sure that it was the Spokane taxes that were the difference so much as it was the State taxes. I have heard both sides of the argument, and as far as I can tell, I have yet to hear the whole truth.
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by flippinfool » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:40 pm

What do you guys think about the princess asking about making this state more appealing to aerospace. what company in there right mind would come here .they just about ran boeing outta here . good lord i think its a little late for that .i about fell outta my bed when i heard that. dont u dare tax her rich friends . shes gotta tough job shes on it the hell with the trout,the cops,the firefighters,the roads, i bet theres still a trooper watching her dog at night so the coyotes dont get it. the only state where u can kill 30 some people and not get the death penelty, molest kids and be set free, make it super expensive to own a biz, run a money making racket called labor and industries and ttry to balance the buget by coming up with kinds of new ways to tax the life outta us .this is the place i wanna do biz . clap clap clap clap yea washington its gonna get a whole lot worse and there isnt nothing we as citizens can do about it.so open up and get ready to eat the bs sandwich there will be plenty to go around for EVERYONE.
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by G-Man » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:05 pm

FF, relax, take a deep breath. Picture yourself living in upstate New York and you just bought a nice new steelhead fishing rod and reel. You pay a fair amount of sales tax on that purchase, 8% or more depending on where you made the purchase, but hey that's life right? Now it's the beginning of the new year and you are doing your federal income taxes and as an added bonus you get to file and pay an additional 4% or more in state income tax. #-o Now that is hosed!

I get just as hacked-off as the next guy about the lack of fiscal responsibility that our government has. I can't grasp how they can blow so much money and have so little to show for it. However, if I get too worked up about it, I think about those other States like New York that get it coming and going and I feel much better.

I hope this has helped.

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by flippinfool » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:16 pm

:shaking2: :scratch: :shaking2:
G-Man wrote:FF, relax, take a deep breath. Picture yourself living in upstate New York and you just bought a nice new steelhead fishing rod and reel. You pay a fair amount of sales tax on that purchase, 8% or more depending on where you made the purchase, but hey that's life right? Now it's the beginning of the new year and you are doing your federal income taxes and as an added bonus you get to file and pay an additional 4% or more in state income tax. #-o Now that is hosed!

I get just as hacked-off as the next guy about the lack of fiscal responsibility that our government has. I can't grasp how they can blow so much money and have so little to show for it. However, if I get too worked up about it, I think about those other States like New York that get it coming and going and I feel much better.

I hope this has helped.
I know man iam trying to calm down it just really annoys me a little bit thats all#-o #-o #-o :scratch: :scratch: :pale: :pale: ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ 8-[ 8-[
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Gisteppo » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:06 pm

FF, while I really love your energy and enthusiasm...
shes gotta tough job shes on it the hell with the trout,the cops,the firefighters,the roads, i bet theres still a trooper watching her dog at night so the coyotes dont get it. the only state where u can kill 30 some people and not get the death penelty, molest kids and be set free, make it super expensive to own a biz, run a money making racket called labor and industries and ttry to balance the buget by coming up with kinds of new ways to tax the life outta us .this is the place i wanna do biz . clap clap clap clap yea washington its gonna get a whole lot worse and there isnt nothing we as citizens can do about it.so open up and get ready to eat the bs sandwich there will be plenty to go around for EVERYONE
If you are going to spout these things you might want to back them up. As one of the above mentioned firefighters, I can tell you that shes has done many good things for my trade as far as training, pay and benefits, retirement, opportunities for advancement, and an open ear in the government for some of our particular special needs such as legislation changes to change tax structures or providing the ability to do city annexation in a different way thats more effective for the citizens and less about land grabbing.

I could go through your post point by point, but Id rather see what makes you think that way....

E

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Uncle Wes » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:26 am

I had seen something on the news the other day but didn't get the whole story, but I believe the gest of it was that one of the fire departments in the state had agreed to freeze their own pay and promotions in order to help the City balance the budget and also avoid lay-offs of co-workers. Gisteppo know any more details on that? Anyway I found that gesture to be outstanding, is that your department? Anyway take care.
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by flippinfool » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:42 am

Gisteppo wrote:FF, while I really love your energy and enthusiasm...
shes gotta tough job shes on it the hell with the trout,the cops,the firefighters,the roads, i bet theres still a trooper watching her dog at night so the coyotes dont get it. the only state where u can kill 30 some people and not get the death penelty, molest kids and be set free, make it super expensive to own a biz, run a money making racket called labor and industries and ttry to balance the buget by coming up with kinds of new ways to tax the life outta us .this is the place i wanna do biz . clap clap clap clap yea washington its gonna get a whole lot worse and there isnt nothing we as citizens can do about it.so open up and get ready to eat the bs sandwich there will be plenty to go around for EVERYONE
If you are going to spout these things you might want to back them up. As one of the above mentioned firefighters, I can tell you that shes has done many good things for my trade as far as training, pay and benefits, retirement, opportunities for advancement, and an open ear in the government for some of our particular special needs such as legislation changes to change tax structures or providing the ability to do city annexation in a different way thats more effective for the citizens and less about land grabbing.

I could go through your post point by point, but Id rather see what makes you think that way....

E
gisteppo you know i like you alot and your the last person i wanna p o.i guess i got to carried away and i need to stop grinding on this and your right about the firefighters. its just the way things have gone everyone sooner or later will hit the chopping block ihope not. with out you guys "FIREFIGHTERS'" which i hope they dont mess with, makes us even more less safe. i had a relative that got whacked right after he graduated a few years ago when they started cutting back and he had to drop his dream and start driving trucks cuz of the budget. iknow i am jumpin to conclusions but the cops are already taking a beating man. our sercurity factor is going down. i need to shut up. i made this thread, i was mad and when your mad you dont think clearly. i guess i let my anger dictate here and iam sorry guys my facts dont add up .gist forgive me #-o #-o #-o
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Gisteppo » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:34 am

Wes, our city did a massive restructuring in 2006 because of the same budgetary issues that everyone else is facing now. Spokane got hit hard and early because of the lack of revenue back then. The city changed its budgeting structure from top to bottom, made fiscal changes, altered the number of years out they do the analysis, and then the hatchet came down...

56 fire positions laid off
28 police positions laid off
5% reduction in all other departments citywide. This included fleet vehicles, hours libraries were open, streets maintenance, everything.

I got laid off then.

Now we come to 2009/2010's budget year and we are looking at another 3% citywide cut. Because of the way the cuts occurred last time, Fire appears to be safe because the rest of the city didn't take it as hard as we did, and our budget is much more streamlined (86% of our total cost is personnel, so no bureaucratic BS spending at Fire). Police, conversely, is another matter. They are looking at a hiring freeze. The mayor is starting to play a few games with them saying that they will have to lay off 60 officers if they don't modify their contract. This is a patent lie, as in order to do so would mean they cut no other services in the entire dept.

This is where collective bargaining laws come into play. The cities typically will use budget cuts to manipulate contract negotiations. They say "we will lay off X people if you don't change your contract." Strangely, if the police guild sticks to their guns (generally softening the contract but not slashing it), the city miraculously finds money somewhere by the time the budget gets ratified. It is a common shell game that gets played with not only tax payer but the city employee as well.

If the city you are referring to is bargaining in good faith, then I absolutely applaud the Guild for avoiding losing members!

----------------------

FF, I get just as frustrated as you do man, so no worries. Its just that in the public setting we need to base everything in fact so that people aren't going around half-cocked and uninformed as to what is really happening out there. If they think they heard police and fire are getting the shaft from the Governor, and it perpetuates, she gets a bad rap for something she didn't do. Obviously there are plenty of things that she did do that we can be plenty pissed about (cutting fisheries, making Spokane pay for a Viaduct repair that none of us drive on, catering to industries that already have handouts) which should receive our attention and we should make known to her so that it changes.

Don't sweat getting pissed, just funnel it into the right place.

E

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by flippinfool » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:46 am

Gisteppo wrote:Wes, our city did a massive restructuring in 2006 because of the same budgetary issues that everyone else is facing now. Spokane got hit hard and early because of the lack of revenue back then. The city changed its budgeting structure from top to bottom, made fiscal changes, altered the number of years out they do the analysis, and then the hatchet came down...

56 fire positions laid off
28 police positions laid off
5% reduction in all other departments citywide. This included fleet vehicles, hours libraries were open, streets maintenance, everything.

I got laid off then.

Now we come to 2009/2010's budget year and we are looking at another 3% citywide cut. Because of the way the cuts occurred last time, Fire appears to be safe because the rest of the city didn't take it as hard as we did, and our budget is much more streamlined (86% of our total cost is personnel, so no bureaucratic BS spending at Fire). Police, conversely, is another matter. They are looking at a hiring freeze. The mayor is starting to play a few games with them saying that they will have to lay off 60 officers if they don't modify their contract. This is a patent lie, as in order to do so would mean they cut no other services in the entire dept.

This is where collective bargaining laws come into play. The cities typically will use budget cuts to manipulate contract negotiations. They say "we will lay off X people if you don't change your contract." Strangely, if the police guild sticks to their guns (generally softening the contract but not slashing it), the city miraculously finds money somewhere by the time the budget gets ratified. It is a common shell game that gets played with not only tax payer but the city employee as well.

If the city you are referring to is bargaining in good faith, then I absolutely applaud the Guild for avoiding losing members!

----------------------

FF, I get just as frustrated as you do man, so no worries. Its just that in the public setting we need to base everything in fact so that people aren't going around half-cocked and uninformed as to what is really happening out there. If they think they heard police and fire are getting the shaft from the Governor, and it perpetuates, she gets a bad rap for something she didn't do. Obviously there are plenty of things that she did do that we can be plenty pissed about (cutting fisheries, making Spokane pay for a Viaduct repair that none of us drive on, catering to industries that already have handouts) which should receive our attention and we should make known to her so that it changes.

Don't sweat getting pissedITS GOOD TO KNOW WHEN I DAIL 911 WE GOT GOT SOMEONE LIKE U TO ON THE JOB AND I HOPE IT CONTINUES . M Y UNCLE WAS A WASHINGTON DC FIREFIGHTER HE DROVE THE REAR OF A COUPLED HOOK AND LADDER TRUCK AND HE WAS A CAPTAIN. HE WAS STATIONED SOUTHEAST DC THEY HAD A15 FT FENCE AROUND THE FIRE HOUSE BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS SO BAD AND HAD TO GAURD THERE TRUCKS AT CALLS FOR FEAR SOMEONE WOULD ROB THEM BECAUSE THE CITY COULD AFFORD TO HAVE A POLICE UNIT SHADOW THEM. HE DEID 5 YRS AGO FROM COLON CANCER AT 63 I THINK BECAUSE OF EXPOSURE OF STUFF HE BREATHED IN AT FIRE CALLS AND BURNING CRACK HOUSES.I LOOK UP TO ANYONE WHO PUTS THERE LIFE ON THE LINE FOR THE CITIZENS YOU GUYS DONT GET PAYED ENOUGH AND I HATE SEEING YOU GUYS GETTIN SHAFTED . GIST IVE NEVER MET YOU IN PERSON BUT YOU SEEM TO BE ONE HELL OF A GUY AND I LIKE YOU AND YOU HAVE OPENED MY EYES IN MANY WAYS ON THIS TOPIC AND FOR THAT THANKS MAN .
E
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Uncle Wes » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:15 am

Okay G now you have me interested. You said "I can tell you that shes has done many good things for my trade as far as training, pay and benefits, retirement, opportunities for advancement". Now was this before 2006 or after? What exactly has been done about your training, pay, and benefits, retirement and also advancement? Have you had to make any concessions ? How many of your other co-workers got their jobs back? I'm not into politics just curious. Oh, yes it was in good faith in fact it was voluntary on their part, a very rare thing now days looking out not only for the community but their comrads.
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Gisteppo » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:57 am

Here is a prime example brought up by FF as to what Gov Gregoire has done for fire personnel:
HE DEID 5 YRS AGO FROM COLON CANCER AT 63 I THINK BECAUSE OF EXPOSURE OF STUFF HE BREATHED IN AT FIRE CALLS AND BURNING CRACK HOUSES.
As with any trade, there are different types of on-the-job injuries. Anyone here that works construction jobs can attest that L&I provides disability benefits if you are hurt in the line of your work. Say you hurt your back moving a truss. You pay for L&I insurance through your income. If you are hurt and deemed disabled, you receive a benefit based on your disability to compensate for lost work, inability to do your previous job, and reeducation benefits.

In my line of work, carcinogens are everywhere. We live in a cancerous world at work, as well as exposure to HIV, hepatitis, tuberculosis, MRSA, etc etc. Gov Gregoire has given us the ability to prove that things such as lung and throat cancer are actually on the job injuries (this is weighed by a panel of elected officials, who weed out cases where something like a lifelong smoker tries to sneak in). As such disability benefits that we have paid for through our entire career are made available to pay for medical costs. This is something hard-fought and she was willing to put it to the reps to vote on. We continue to try to prove other cancers like skin cancer at the areas exposed (neck, face, hands) to the largest levels of carcinogens are also on the job injuries so that treatment costs can be managed.

As for training, have you seen the WSP training facility at North Bend? This is a state-funded facility for which the city also pays a portion for our training. This facility provides things like a high-rise burn tower to train us for very specific firefighting jobs that we cannot afford at the city levels to provide. She has fully funded the program time and again so that those of us on the street can provide the best possible services through highly trained individuals.

Pay and benefits protection comes via collective bargaining and preventing Wa from becoming a Right-To-Work state. In doing so, we have a stronger voice when the city attempts to do things like reduce our staffing or cut promotable positions, which directly effects our potential for advancement. Imagine working for a company that only has 3 positions for which you can promote and increase pay. Then the employer just does away with one, so you can either have this job or that job, and unless you can get the timing right, you don't ever get promoted. Makes you want to leave for a more lucrative company doesn't it?

E

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Mike Carey » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:11 pm

9.2% unemployment - ouch. It's no wonder the budget is crumbling.
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Gisteppo » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 pm

No jobs, no income. No income, no sales. No sales, no sales tax revenue.

Still 9.2% isn't bad compared to most of the country.

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Uncle Wes » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:20 pm

G, I'm trying to formulate this in my head, the upgraded benefits came after 2006? Out of 56 FF laid off in 2006 how many got rehired? Do you forsee any of the stimulus money that is headed to the state helping to rehire or hire more FF and law enforcement?
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by AdsBot [Google] » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:21 pm

I am growing old and I am growing tired. My back is sore and my feet constantly ache. I have spent a lifetime working so those on welfare don’t have to.

It appears to me that our overhead has grown larger than our ability to produce. Cut the overhead! Cut our taxes!

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Gisteppo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:03 pm

The improvement in benefits has been an ongoing process since she took office, yes. All of our guys were rehired in the course of the following two years.

Stimulus money coming from the fed gov is not destined to recurring expenses like personnel. The idea on those is to get original money out there, starting projects, which when completed should either generate new revenue or keep people employed through the deepest part of the depression until the rest of the economy rebounds, at which time we, the taxpayer, are off the hook.

Stampie, thats a great example. Feels good to say, but really has no fact or basis for discussion.

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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Uncle Wes » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:57 pm

I'm happy to hear that everyone got rehired. Any idea how many firefighters there are state wide? How about firehouses? This is actually quite an educational conversation we are having.
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RE:WHATS OUR KOOKY STATE GOVENOR UP TO THIS TIME

Post by Uncle Wes » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:29 pm

Here is a little more info on the stimulus money.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090417/ap_ ... lus_limits
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